Op-Ed: Change the Pension System to Help Taxpayers
State Rep. Warren Kampf weighs in on pension reform.
Editor's Note: The following was written by state Rep. Warren Kampf (R-157), who represents much of the Phoenixville area. To submit a response or your own letter to the editor, e-mail Lynn.Jusinski@patch.com.
All across Pennsylvania, homeowners are facing property tax increases or potential reductions to services like police protection in response to a single cost driver facing local governments and school districts: the spiraling cost of meeting pension obligations.
No longer is there a question of whether these pensions are placing a crushing burden on our cities, counties, townships and school districts. Elected officials—Democrats and Republicans alike—have made it clear that the elaborate pension plans granted to public employees, specifically defined pension plans that guarantee a set retirement benefit regardless of economic fluctuations, are placing a crushing burden on our cities, counties, municipalities and school districts.
At the same time local officials are crying “uncle,” property taxpayers are as well—unable in these economic times to shoulder annual increases in their tax bill. The time has come to truly reform our costly pension systems rather than kick the can down the road as past legislatures have.
Traditional pensions—also called defined benefit plans—place the investment risks associated with market fluctuations on the taxpayer instead of the employee. If the stock or bond markets tumble, it shrinks the amount of money available to pay current pensioners—and requires the state or other government entity to make up the difference. That requires two equally unappealing choices: requiring more from taxpayers or cutting essential services.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the average annual wage for a state government employee is now $48,742, versus $45,155 for workers in the private sector. Since 2001 the cost of benefits for state and local government workers has risen 50 percent more than those for private-sector employees. Those benefits come directly from taxpayers.
The result of these pensions at the state level is astounding. Currently, our public employee state pension plans are under-funded by an estimated $30 billion, and meeting this funding shortfall is a crisis that will affect all budget expenditures, including those that help the most impoverished. It is estimated another $10 billion shortfall exists in non-state government public employee pension plans as well.
I have been working on very complex legislation to be introduced this spring that will require all new state employees and those hired by school districts to participate in a defined contribution plan (like the 401k-style plan that is prevalent in the private sector) where the taxpayer would be required only to match the employee’s contribution. This would be in lieu of the traditional defined benefit pension plan.
Under my plan, workers would own their retirement accounts, and can even carry them to another job. And no longer would taxpayers be responsible for paying for market fluctuations over which they have no control. Instead, the employee would be responsible for the investment strategy they wish to follow, including the amount of risk they wish to take.
Another added benefit to this change would be that future legislatures are prevented from tapping pension money to pay for other government spending as they have done in the past, which has also contributed to the current underfunding.
As for taxpayers, my reform would dramatically cut state and local pension liabilities so those who pay property taxes would no longer be tapped even if the stock market declines—because taxpayers have no more money to give.
Rich Ciamacca
8:17 am on Saturday, January 21, 2012
You have to give these Republicans like Warren Kampf credit – they severely cut funds from every school district in the state and then blame the school districts themselves for raising school taxes so that they can actually run their schools. He wants to fix the pension problem – it’s simple – have the state meet its obligations like everyone else.
We should honor all workers who get the job done each and every day for all of us - from policemen and firemen to teachers and social workers. Military, health care workers, mental health workers and the like.
People don't take these jobs for big paychecks, or fame or celebrity - they take them because these are among the most important tasks in our society -protecting others, educating children, helping the sick.
Let's allow them to earn a dignified wage, with decent benefits and health care and retirement, without blaming them for every ill of society.
And let's get these same benefits for all who work. Let's restore some worker’s rights in the private sector, too, and not accept the politics of we can't do it, or we can't afford it. For the future of our state and our nation, we can't afford not to.
Bud Horenci
9:18 am on Saturday, January 21, 2012
All very noble causes Mr. Ciamacca and who couldn't agree.....if it were all affordable. You didn't include anything regarding just how "we the people" are supposed to pay for these noble opinions/causes. And please don't just state the tired old talking points of elimimating waste (please define it) or tax the rich (not near enough money even if you took it all). When one considers income tax (federal, state and local), real estates tax (county, local and school) sales tax, and when one considers the need to pay for the necessities of life (I'll spare you a list), just where, pray tell, does the money come from for your noble cause? Details please.
Weighingin
9:17 am on Saturday, January 21, 2012
These may not be big paychecks but remember they work a little over a 180 days a year.
http://php.app.com/PAteachers10/results.php?pageNum_Recordset1=0&totalRows_Recordset1=384&county=Chester&LEAname=Phoenixville+Area+SD&school=%25&lname=&fname=&assignment=%25&Submit=Search
I believe the point Rep. Kampf is making is that the defined pension plan is unsustainable in its current form given how the financial markets are. Taxpayers are then on the hook to make up the difference because the recipient was promised a certain amount in the beginning regardless of the then current market situation.
Reform is needed because the people supporting the model, the taxpayer, are making less than the people who work for them.
resident
5:10 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Well said and very true. Those that receive pensions certainly must understand this but can't see beyond the fact that they "deserve it". I certainly wouldn't want to willingly accept my pension going away either but drastic times call for drastic measures. They must on a rational level however realize as stated above that those without jobs, without salary increases, self funded 401s (If you are lucky enough to put anything away) that have dried up.. cannot afford to provide them the luxury of their safety net. All pensions and unions must go away. There are too many people that need work and will do so anxiously without all the strings attached. Society cannot put a value as well on whose job is more important than the next persons. Try living without your plumber, auto mechanic, etc... I applaud Warren Kampf 100%.
Robin Reichley
9:19 am on Saturday, January 21, 2012
I agree with Mr. Ciamacca. Public employees are not the single blame here in the Pennsylvania economy. The single blame comes from Harrisburg who decided to withdraw the dependent school districts from the golden pot at the end of the rainbow!
School districts were given an OPTION not to pay into the pension plan; they were not mandated not to pay into the plan. Many school districts upstate and mid-state continued to pay so their school district burden is not so great. They appreciated their employees and realized they deserved a decent pension after years of service.
In addition, I don't see any mention of cutting the salaries, benefits or pensions for politicians in Harrisburg or Washington. Public employees are constantly getting the blame for everything that goes wrong in society. Doesn't some of that blame deserve to go to our politicians who are spending the tax payers monies? And politicians have the best benefits package of any citizen in this country! Look into it. You might want to consider that as your new profession!
Rich Ciamacca
10:41 am on Saturday, January 21, 2012
I understand the tax issue and how the schools play into that but this is about more than just taxes, or schools for that matter. In the short run, the state took in more revenue than needed last year (about $700 Million) and now’s the time to use it! In the long run, the economy is beginning to show signs of real recovery and hopefully, that will translate into increased revenue for the state.
But let’s face it – if the state is going to continue to push its obligations on local government and school districts, then property taxes will continue to increase.
Eliminating waste is not going to do it, but I do believe that all individuals and corporations should pay their fair share and right now, that’s not happening. You only need to look at Mitt Romney’s 15% to figure that out. Even Warren Buffet thinks that the tax rates are unfair to working people.
Weighingin
1:36 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Are you the Rich Ciamacca that ran for state rep in 2006? If so, you probably were/are aware of what Rep Kampf is saying in his opinion piece about the whole pension debacle. What would you propose differently? This has been a ticking time bomb for some time and it reared its ugly head when the markets tanked several years ago.
It does appear the state is pushing the obligations to the local level but it doesn't change the fact that rising property taxes are becoming a larger burden on the homeowner.
Unfortunately your mentioning the 15% Mitt paid in taxes while omitting the 33% paid by Newt doesn’t show complete fairness in using it as an example while discussing local property taxes.
Bud Horenci
3:43 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
So this is your "detail" for how to pay for it???? Thanks for nothing. And as usual.....let's get government (pick one...federal, state or local) to pay for everything so we won't have to be responsible for it. They can just print money with abandon and tax the 50% who actually pay taxes. I'll be sending you my oil delivery bill tomorrow so you can appy your wonderful solutions and take care of it for me.
Interested Observer
3:54 pm on Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Mr. Ciamacca --
Your using the 15% example shows that you don't understand the tax system. Romney isn't working - his income is derived primarily from dividends/sales of stock. These are CAPITAL GAINS not income. In America, the capital gains tax in 15% - which means Mr. Romney paid what he was supposed to under the law. On the other hand, Mr. Gingrich is working, which means he was paying income taxes and, therefore, a different rate.
As for Mr. Buffet, for all his talk it has been widely reported exactly the lengths he has gone to avoid complete taxation, so his opinion holds much less weight with me than it used to.
Perhaps you believe class warfare is the way to solve problems, but that hasn't worked in the last 3 years and won't start now.
Interested Observer
9:05 pm on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
I find it absolutely amazing that you continue to spout Democrat political talking points about a $700 Million surplus that doesn't exist and never existed.
Here are the facts: during last year's budget debate, Democrats claimed an income estimate that was $700 Million higher than the one the Governor insisted the legislature stick to. The Democrats then claimed that there was a $700 million "surplus" based on an estimate and tried to make the state spend that estimated money. Today -- and in fact before your comment -- it is found that state revenues are lagging nearly $500 Million below the Governor's conservative estimate for the budget last year.
So, if the state had followed your logic, would be $1.2 BILLION in deficit right now.
Even worse, knowing that the $700 Million is a bogus number, you continue to call for the state to spend it -- even though it doesn't exist.
I just figured this out: you believe money grows on trees!
Ed Naratil
10:57 am on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Representative Jim Cox has proposed a bill to eliminate school taxes.
Go here to read about it. Then click on the link to Jim Cox's page.
Read his thoughts and then, if you agree, click on the link to sign the
petition. I did.
http://www.ptcc.us/
Mike Ellis
7:20 pm on Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Hi Ed. I checked out Cox's link. Is it similar to Rohrer's plan? Sam's been trying to eliminate school taxes for 20 years and I wish him and Cox success, but is there just too much pushback to get this accomplished?
David Curran
3:38 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
How about taxing the companies making a fortune off Marcellus Shale... It is so tiresome to constantly hear that it is the teachers or other government workers fault all of the time.
Rich Ciamacca
4:50 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Sorry but a thesis won't fit in the comment box. Taxing the Marcellus Shale (and not just with the pathetic impact fee which the governor couldn't even get passed) would practically balance the state budget itself. And you can keep your oil bill; I pay mine by the month, but I know a number of people that can't pay. And I wonder if they feel as you do, that we should collectively sit around and do nothing about it. Is that what freedom is? The ability to what - starve or freeze or get sick because if you can't pay, that's just too bad for you. I believe that we're better than that; that as Americans, we can do anything and this tough economy won't last forever. There's no silver bullet to fix our problems - if there was, there would be nothing to debate, but this election will take up the debate of the role of government, I'm sure of that.
Bud Horenci
5:25 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
A theseis isn't necessary. How about 10 good/workable ideas that don't involve tax increases.
"And I wonder if they feel as you do, that we should collectively sit around and do nothing about it."....where did you ever get the idea that was how I feel??? I worked my butt off for over 50 years to have what I have, including working through school. There were no gifts, no inheritances, and no government handouts. Do you not get sarcasm. My comment has to do with idealogues with zero solutions. You have offered none. If we were to tax the Macellus Shale to the extent you would like, there would be no development of the resource because the contractors couldn't afford to. Here's a concept, quit looking for or advocating a government solution to all the countries problems. Work hard at something, anything and success will come. How about contributing to individual retirement plans instead of having the taxpayers take care of it. I'm proof that it works and there are many other like thinkers I know who have also succeeded.
Rich Ciamacca
6:16 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
If you've worked for 50 years, then you've seen a time when the deck wasn't so stacked against the working person. We used to have doctors and lawyers living in my old neighborhood, alongside of teachers and factory workers. Not anymore. I'm glad you made it but others coming after you are going to struggle just to get close to where you are today. I've worked hard too, but the taxes aren't as important to me. Maybe because I'm younger; maybe because I'm still working. I don't know. But if we don't come together to find a solution, it's going to be worse for generations to come. 25% of my generation hasn't saved anything for retirement. I'm not in that category, but I still worry about it. And sorry but you're wrong about the shale. They need to pay their fair share, period. Sorry I missed the sarcasm.
Daniel Pipes
7:24 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
If Marcellas is the next big thing to hit the State why don't you research the companies extracting it that pay a dividend and invest in them like I did. These companies have paid over two trillion dollars in taxes since 2008. Ed Rendell. wouldn't pass an extraction tax with both houses Democrat and everyone wants to blame Corbett and the Republicans. I say kudos to Kampf for trying but you will not get a public official to change anything when it affects their pocket$$.
Interested Observer
8:07 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
I find Mr. Ciamacca's teachers' union talking points hilarious and the fact that he spouts them in response to this article proves he didn't really read it.
If he had, he would see that the article itself points out how much of an increase teachers unions and public employees have had in their salaries -- so much so that they now make more than the private sector, along with defined benefit pensions, healthcare and more. The simple fact is, these kind of benefits were created to help ease a disparity in salary levels years ago and reward people for choosing these vocations which paid less than the private sector. The problem is, that is no longer the case and the system as it stands is unsustainable.
Nor does Mr. Kampf blame the school districts or local governments; in fact, he points a finger at past legislatures which have refused to deal with this looming problem.
What he does do is lay out a simple and concise argument of why change is needed and offer a solution. If only we had more people in Harrisburg and Washington like this, perhaps not every issue would be a "crisis."
I applaud Mr. Kampf for having the courage to present legislation to deal with this problem - especially since it will most definitely make him a target of the PSEA and other labor unions who helped spend nearly $1.5 Million (total) on campaigns for Paul Drucker in 2008 and 2010.
B. Diamond
8:57 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Mr. Kampf's facts are deceiving. He says the average government worker makes $3,500 more annually than the average private sector worker This implies an apples-to-apples comparison. But public sector workers are on average better educated and more skilled than the average worker. When compared on this basis, public sector workers continue to make less than their equivalent in the private sector counterparts. Employee benefits for public workers close the pay gap.
"Resident" posts, ""All pensions and unions must go away" - a comment that ignores the fact that unions have strengthened the working environment for everyone over the last 70 years.
You can thank unions for paid vacations, sick leave, minimum wage laws, overtime pay, child labor laws, unemployment insurance, health insurance coverage, wrongful termination laws, OSHA, the ADA, holiday pay, pregnancy and parental leave, equal pay acts, laws ending sweatshops - just to name a few.
Last point: PA legislators shouldn't be considering the elimination of pensions for future public sector workers without stating up front that they will give up their own state provided pension benefits. Somehow I don't see this happening.....
Bud Horenci
9:48 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
"But public sector workers are on average better educated and more skilled than the average worker.".........this is a joke, right? You absolutely have to be kidding, right? Wow, where the heck did you get that tidbit? From the SEIU which represents hundreds of thousands of government workers? Unions for the most part, outlived there usefullness years ago when laws were put in place to protect workers from 19th century types of abuses.
Interested Observer
3:56 pm on Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Actually, Mr. Diamond, from what I understand by contacting Mr. Kampf's office, his legislation eliminates the defined benefit pensions for all future legislators. You are not allowed - by law - to change the system for those already in it. This, by the way, protects all the other employees you seem to care about.
Rich Ciamacca
10:38 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Fact Check: 1) R's have held the Pa Senate for as long as I can remember and I believe that they also held the House for a term or two under Gov. Rendell; 2) I did read the article (maybe you should have too instead of parroting R talking points) and Kampf said that the average wage of a state worker was $49k. Even if teachers in this area have a higher average salary (maybe $55-60k), that's still significantly less than the median salary in Chester County which I believe is about $85k; by the way, he says they're going to match the amount the employees put in: the teachers put in 7.5% of their salary, 10% for new teachers (you know that isn't going to happen, 401k match will be the first item cut).
Here's an idea for pension cuts: let's start by cutting the pension of any school board member who draws a teacher pension and then refuses to vote for any school tax increases (part of the I've got mine, too bad for the rest of you crowd).
And Bob - the legislature has already made major cuts: $700 million out of education, 88,000 kids off of healthcare, hundreds of thousands of adults off of healthcare, welfare reductions, state employee layoffs (including teachers) and inadequate regulation of drilling. The bottom line is you can't get to an adequate budget without raising revenue.
Someone wanted Newt and he won the SC primary tonight! If Newt is the candidate, he won't get 100 electoral votes! Good night and Good luck (Murrow's signoff).
B. Diamond
11:32 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
Yo Bud,
It's no joke!
Fact: 54% of public sector workers have at least a college degree and a large percentage of that group hold graduate degrees. Only 35% of private sector workers have a bachelor's degree.
Re Pennsylvania: Check out this recent report:
http://keystoneresearch.org/sites/keystoneresearch.org/files/PA-Fact-Sheet-Public-Private-Sector-Pay.pdf
Also refer to this: http://www.epi.org/publication/public_versus_private_employee_costs_in_pennsylvania/
See articles with links to research by the Economic Policy Institute
http://www.epi.org/press/news_from_epi_state_and_local_public_employees_undercompensated_epi_study_f/
http://www.epi.org/publication/getting_the_facts_straight_about_state_and_local_pay/
http://www.epi.org/publication/for_public_sector_workers_a_wage_penalty/
Bud Horenci
9:06 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
Actually it is a joke. You reference web sites affiliated with "think tanks" supported to the tune of 30% by union donations and the remainder by liberal foundation grants. And I'm supposed to believe their propoganda. Give me a break. What would you expect them to say about the very organizations that fund them? I wasn't born yesterday but obviously you've participated in drinking the cool aide. Good luck with that.
Ike
7:20 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
Unions for the most part, outlived there usefullness years ago when laws were put in place to protect workers from 19th century types of abuses.
WHAT!.. YEA ,is that why the hourly wages have gone up so MUCH IN THE LAST 25 YEARS... And while iam at it , aliens, illegal, and legal have most of the construction jobs .WHY IS THAT? Cause the companies dont have to pay workmans comp and the other insurance that they had to when doing everything above the table. JUST GIVE THEM CASH!....and dont say thats not true. ITS SO TRUE...If anyone knows how to stop that i would like to know .ILL CALL TODAY..
Daniel Pipes
8:46 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
http://php.app.com/PAteachers09/results.php?pageNum_Recordset1=0&totalRows_Recordset1=385&county=Chester&LEAname=Phoenixville+Area+SD&school=%&lname=&fname=&assignment=%&Submit=Search
Heres a shocker Mr Ciamacca. These are the teachers salaries for 2009, then add their raises probably 3% under the old contract for the last two years and I don't know where you got your $50 to $60,000 average. Gym teachers are making $100,000 a year in PASD + BENEFITS and that should tell you why something needs to be done about pensions.
Robin Reichley
9:39 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
I believe your info., Mr. Pipes, is incorrect. To my knowledge the teachers in Phoenixville have not had any raises in 3 years and they are paying increased benefit costs. In addition, only a employee who has worked for 28-30 years is making a salary you quote. You should talk to a teacher rather than writing disparaging remarks about their salaries. No wonder so many young teachers are leaving the profession when the citizens speak in the manner you do about the "easy" job they have every day.
Weighingin
10:15 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
"To my knowledge the teachers in Phoenixville have not had any raises in 3 years and they are paying increased benefit costs."
Well then all you need to do is click on the link Mr. Pipes provided and the one I provided earlier to see there was a wage increase between the two years. Now I have to wonder if your statement "only a employee who has worked for 28-30 years is making a salary you quote" is based in fact or exaggeration.
Interested Observer
8:59 pm on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
Even if you believe there were "no raises" there are ALWAYS step increases in the contracts - which are basically raises hidden from the public which also contribute to the unsubstainable nature of the pension system as it is today.
Bud Horenci
9:58 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
As far as I can see, you are the only one who references teachers 180 day a year job as "easy". I can only assume you're ok with a gym teacher making $100K a year plus benefits, regardless of years of service. Do you not get that any job, any service, has a value, regardless of how long it's performed? Are you suggesting that those values go up and up even though the job is essentially the same, just because someone does it forever? Should a gym teacher or any job for that matter just continue to rise forever? Should these positions pay $150K if they are done for 30 years? Please. That would just imply there is no end in sight with your thought process, is there?
Daniel Pipes
11:22 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
PASD TITLE 2009-10
SALARY
Superintendant $205k
Librarian $80,000
Director of Pupil Personnel Services/Special Ed $137,354
Principal $140,000
Principal/Dir of Comm Relations $137,000
Principal $139,000
Principal $138,000
Principal $120,000
Assistant principal $124,000
Assistant principal $118,000
Assistant principal $108,000.
Assistant principal $96,000
Director of Technology $132,000
Supervisor of Reading/Language Arts $132,000
Supervisor of Mathematics $111,000
Assistant Principal $121,000
Assistant Principal $97,000
Supervisor of Special Ed $99,000
Supervisor of Special Ed $94,000
Director of Operations $123,000
Comptroller $85,000
Supervisor of Technology Ops $78,000
Business Specialist $67,000
Employee Benefits Admin $54,000
Athletic Specialist $42,000
Director of Human Resources $138,0000
Business Administrator $150,000
Assistant Superintendant $137,000
Admin assistant $31/hour
Admin assistant $35/hour
I said nothing about how easy a teacher has it. Those are your words. Taxpayers can no longer afford teacher , public sector employee or public servant pensions. When public info is posted online why do people get all upset about it. its all fact.
Robin Reichley
1:22 am on Monday, January 23, 2012
Once again, Mr. Pipes, you have interpreted that all of the positions and salaries you quoted are teacher salaries. Obviously, you have no idea how a school district is set up as all of the positions you noted are administrative positions and our school district has a brand new building with most of these persons in it plus others. These people have nothing to do with teaching or instruction in the classroom students. Oh, sorry; one position above is in a school building and that is the librarian. Also, don't put words into people mouths. I never said teaching is easy. It is one of the most difficult jobs an adult can do. I was reacting to your comment about gym teachers not deserving the wage you quote. Until you have worked in a school setting, don't spout off as if you know the job! And I am sure you and many others here would love to set back teacher wages to poverty levels as you don't see the value of teaching. Working with young people is one of the most difficult positions to work in and the desire to educate and prepare young people for adulthood takes a lot of love, research and time of a great teacher. I believe the majority of the teachers put much more than 8 working hours in each day and then spend their off time researching better ways to teach by taking college classes. As I said before, talk to a teacher. Get the real story of their job.
Weighingin
7:53 am on Monday, January 23, 2012
Ms. Reichley,
You wrote; "And I am sure you and many others here would love to set back teacher wages to poverty levels as you don't see the value of teaching."
In all the comments I have read in this thread, nothing seems further from truth. We have an obligation to educate our children as a society and the PA constitution stipulates such. What has been said in Mr. Kampf,s letter is under the current system of benefits, it is not sustainable. That is what needs changing. Your statements inflame the discussion as union talking points.
Bud Horenci
8:23 am on Monday, January 23, 2012
The issue Ms. Reichley is the non sustainable pension system which both administrative and teacher personnel participate. And the amount paid to those participants is set by their earnings. You madam, were the first person in this thread to use the term "easy" and because you put quotes around it, implied that Mr. Pipes said it first. he didn't, you did. So just who were you quoting? Just keep drinking the union cool aide until the entire system breaks down. Then there will be nothing for anyone to be had from bankrupt pension systems. Could be the best thing that could happen to save the significantly overburdened tax payer from being homeless.
A Taxpayer
11:49 am on Sunday, January 22, 2012
OK here are the facts for the last few years -
Teacher's Pay 2006-7 http://tinyurl.ms/33x9
Teacher's Pay 2007-8 http://tinyurl.ms/33xa
Teacher's Pay 2008-9 http://tinyurl.ms/33xb
Teacher's Pay 2010-11 http://tinyurl.ms/33xd
Pick a school district and a teacher and get the facts!!
Roy Hendl
1:54 pm on Sunday, January 22, 2012
Average teacher's pay in PASD for 2009 was $68,326 + 40% uplift for benefits
Average administrator's pay in PASD for 2009 was $95,656 + 40% uplift for benefits
That's a pretty good compensation package.
Now to the pensions. Immediately eliminate all pension programs. Freeze the benefit current employees will receive and begin a 401k style plan for all employees including the politicians in Harrisburg. That's what a lot of private sector companies are doing to remain viable. Defined pension plans are becoming too expensive to maintain.
Bud Horenci
4:08 pm on Sunday, January 22, 2012
Thanks Roy. Numbers are shocking, particularly when considering the days and hours worked. And your proposal would actually make a difference. And it's still generous to boot. Likelihood of it happening.....probably zero because the unions would fight it to the death. Maybe we just need to see all their plans and programs go bankrupt. That would certainly null and void the agreements. Then we could actually offer something affordable and sustainable instead of the nonsense we're stuck with now.
Mr. Ed
7:02 am on Monday, January 23, 2012
You want shocking numbers - check the sites provided by 'A Taxpayer' above.
The information provided by those sites list the name, salary, position, degree of education, total years of teaching, and time employed by the school district.
Daniel Pipes
8:42 am on Monday, January 23, 2012
Ms. Reichley... I know that these are administrative salaries. A previous post had a link to teachers salaries. Your confusing my words with someone elses post because of your anger. I NEVER EVER said a word about any teacher other then giving a gym teachers salary which is public knowledge. Also never said anyone wasn't deserving of the wage they make.
These salaries are tied to their contribution to the pension plan which is no longer sustainable which is what the Representatives bill is about.
How do you feel about a former interim superintendent making $900out a day while collecting an $80,000 pension?
Richard
11:28 am on Monday, January 23, 2012
Quite simply, there are very few F500 organizations that even offer a pension to new hires anymore, as it's no longer realistic. This argument is slowly starting to move into the realm of the ridiculous. Honor the current pension obligations and those who qualify but create a plan to eliminate it in the future and move to a 401k. Period.
Edvard Roperkov
4:01 pm on Monday, January 23, 2012
It is disgusting that we have allowed politicians to vilify public sector workers like police, fire fighters, and teachers. Disgusting.
Interested Observer
4:00 pm on Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Perhaps you seem to be reading something different than I am, but nowhere is there vilification of anyone. This article sets out some simple and straightforward points and offers a solution.
Richard
9:08 am on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
You view is a bit concerning if removing the pension benefit for new hires and offering a different choice is vilifying.
Rich Ciamacca
6:50 pm on Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Oh, I understand the tax system and you just made my point for me! Why should someone who goes to work every day pay a higher tax rate than someone who gets their income from investments? Do you know when the capital gains rate was the same as most working Americans (28%)? When President Reagan signed the tax reform act of 1986!
Weighingin
8:05 am on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
Rich - So you are advocating taxing a higher rate on investment income? Many, many seniors who no longer work rely on that income to make ends meet. I know. To tax them at a higher rate, and there are many more retired seniors than millionaires, (remember the 1%?) would cause an undo hardship on a large segment of the population who don't work. SSI income doesn't cut it and there were no COLA for two years.
As an aside, would you counsel someone to work a minimum wage job so they could live as well as someone making 60k a year? Check out where your tax dollars are going: In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitlement-america-head-household-making-minimum-wage-has-more-disposable-income-family-mak
Interested Observer
8:55 pm on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
I do know that about the capital gains rate. What you fail to admit is the double-taxation of most dividends. Remember, anyone who pays taxes on dividends, etc. is paying this tax AFTER the corporation paying those dividends has already paid taxes on their earnings. Of course, if your goal is always to get more for the government, you are probably fine with this.
Brandon
11:20 am on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
A little off topic here, but why is it that Government employees are able to own financial securities? It seems like the people who are able to make laws that directly affect financial securities would have a vested interest in seeing that those they own would continue to appreciate in value. This then causes bias in their duties as they relate to a country as a whole.
Ed Naratil
9:05 pm on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
Sam and Jim's bills will end up in committee and then on the floor. Not the floor of the Capitol, but the floor the janitor cleans. Push-back? Yep. And the ever powerful teacher's union.
These bills will go no-where.
Interested Observer
10:20 pm on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
I know both of these proposals and despise them for a simple reason: ALL the money goes to and is contolled by Harrisburg. While I may hate writing my property tax check, at least I know every penny is going to our local schools. Once the money goes to Harrisburg we can kiss it goodbye; we already dont get back anywhere near what our area pays into the state in income taxes.