Citizens for Liberty Calls for an End to Eminent Domain

It speaks for itself.
It speaks for itself.
This is in reference to the Phoenixville Area School Board Members who voted to STEAL a families private property rights and business away from them, just because these elected officials think they can.

The Meadow Brook Golf Club was seized by FORCE through a simple vote of a few school board members. The livelihood and the legacy of this family owned business has been destroyed. Lets just call it for what it is, because this land was confiscated by THEFT from an unapologetic government. How can a few people have this much power? Is this law unjust and immoral? YES it is, but the true answer lies in the hearts and the minds of the people. What would you do if this happened to your family? I'm sure you would be outraged if you recieved a 30 day vacate notice too! What would the School Board members think if this happened to their property? Would they think this is right? No they would not, because how could any moral human being think that it is okay for someone else to confiscate their private property?

The right to own and use private property is fundamental to freedom and integral to the pursuit of happiness. The U.S. Constitution guarantees that right and obligates the government to protect it. James Madison, who wrote the Constitution, stated that “As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may equally be said to have property in his rights.”

The traditional legal attributes of the ownership of private property are (a) the right to use the property as the owner wishes, and (b) the right to alienate (lease, pledge as security, or sell) the property as the owner wishes, and (c) the right to exclude from the property whomever the owner wishes. Jefferson argued that the right to exclude means the right to exclude EVERYONE from the property that the owner chose to exclude, even the government. Thus, the Jeffersonian view is that not only may the government not seize property, not only may it not seize property and pay a fair market value for it, but the government can only acquire property through a voluntary sale by the owner.

Let this be a lesson to the taxpayers and especially the voters of this School District. No longer will people vote for others that will use FORCE to take others private property, and also use this incident for political gains. No longer will We the People VOTE for any politician that does not have the best interest of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness (property).

Let this be a wake up call to everyone. Government is not our boss, they work for us! And it is time that we let them know it.

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harryfinster December 25, 2013 at 09:08 PM
yes chris trying to bring you up to a higher level of existence
harryfinster December 25, 2013 at 09:29 PM
remember your last attempt to buy property was a complete failure ,with lawsuits etc due to bumpkinmanship on the schools part
Chris December 26, 2013 at 09:13 AM
@harry, like I said...someone who wastes their time with a bunch of "bumpkins" is clearly not the sharpest tack. But thanks for the continued comic relief on all things Phoenixville. It always puts a huge smile on my face! Merry Christmas!!! @Marilyn..."hours on the bus"? Did I miss something? Is it being built in NJ? "Replacing parents with educators"? If that happens to a student it's the fault of the parent. They are moving locations, not taking ownership of the personal responsibility parents have to raise their children.
harryfinster December 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM
well chris sounds like you always take the schools side ,you must be in denial not to see ,your kids would be much better off in great valley or a private school
Chris December 26, 2013 at 01:10 PM
Do me a huge favor and find me a place I said P'Ville was better than GV. Are they gaining by leaps and bounds in almost any category you review? Yes and you'd be foolish to deny otherwise as the data wouldn't bear you out. Private school? Again, you'd be foolish to make a blanket statement that they're all better than public. I think you're in denial. You believe someone defending the district with data is in denial meanwhile you(who admittedly has not lived in the area for years) makes blanket statements when the data doesn't even bear you out. I think we all know who is in denial. Merry Christmas Harry.
harryfinster December 27, 2013 at 12:12 AM
http://globalreportcard.org/map.html#bottom-results http://www.schooldigger.com/go/PA/city/Phoenixville/search.aspx?level=3 http://www.schooldigger.com/go/PA/city/malvern/search.aspx?level=3
harryfinster December 27, 2013 at 12:14 AM
here you go chris read and weep great valley is ranked 20 phoenixville 240 not even close ,who has the denial? check the links quick befoore theyt are deleted
harryfinster December 27, 2013 at 12:20 AM
your kids will have a lifetime handicap attending phoenixville schools
harryfinster December 27, 2013 at 12:21 AM
the only improvement to phoenixville schools is propaganda
Chris December 27, 2013 at 08:44 AM
Chris December 27, 2013 at 08:42 am Again, find where I made this mysterious comparisson to GV. If you managed to look beyond the surface, you'd see Phoenixville is in the top quartile of the country. Nobody ever claimed they were GV. You've made up that debate in your own head. What I have continued to state is that they have improved significantly over the past decade. By 2015 they will also pass GV and Connestoga in AP offerings. You can continue to deny that but it's simply a falsehood. Sorry. But please continue to posted dated (almost 7 years old) information for us to review.
Muffins December 27, 2013 at 10:28 AM
I attended a very large high school in Montgomery County, average class size was about 33-35 kids, and I can tell you, the needs of my children have always been met in the PASD. And, when my children had challenges, I was not ignored by the teacher/principal. Larger does not mean better. Harry, you are one negative, angry person. Maybe things will be better for you in 2014.
Chris December 27, 2013 at 11:11 AM
Larger most certainly not mean better nor does smaller. I'd direct anyone to read the latest Malcolm Gladwell book where he talks about this exact situation as related to education. Nobody here (other than Harry) has claimed Phoenixville is the best school in the nation or the state or the county for that matter. What is indisputable is its improvement year over year (see test score data) and its standing as one of the top quartile schools in the nation (see recent national school related rankings from US News et al). He's angry muffins, he hasn't been here in years but claims to know all the goings on. If he was at least balanced and said "some good, some bad" it'd be great to have an honest debate. Sadly he's just another troll. But it does make for interesting comic relief.
harryfinster December 28, 2013 at 01:01 AM
well chris think about it,if phoenixville has improved every year for many years ,and it is only in the top quartile ,think about how bad it was when i attended it other people beside my self have complaints but don't bother to air them . i lived close to the border between phoenixville and great valley so i was aware how much more quality GV was.Too bad my parents weren't smart enough to get me into GV,would have saved six years of wasted time attending phoenixville. if phoenixville is improving it is due to the fact that better quality people leaving the collapsed city of philadelphia are forcing the old time phoenixville people to move west towards the collapsed towns of pottstown and reading.us world doesnt give phoenixville a national ranking so i dont know where you get your ranking from.remember the tech school is ranked at the very bottom .
Chris December 28, 2013 at 07:11 AM
I have never disputed what it may have been in the past harry....never. But the truth is the district and the town have seen a resurgence over the past 10 to 15 years. It's a very popular town now and again the District had received several National accolades over the past few years which I've shared on other threads over the years. That's all I have ever said. You will not find me stating anything about pville in the 80s bevause I wasn't here and the data certainly would be against me from all I know. I also have to say your last post was a thoughtful and mature perspective. That's the kind of debate we need and want to have. Don't demean your viewpoint by silly troll like posts. The last one was great.
harryfinster December 28, 2013 at 07:03 PM
okay chris here is my point of view i have read posts saying phoenixville was a top high school in the nation which is ludicrous.my main complaint is that,back in the good old days which weren't so good students were attacked (myself included) by a screaming, raging,lunatic of a teacher. this teacher became an administrator and was recently put on the phoenixville wall of fame .this would validate the fact that the school is still the same lunatic asylum it always was,and hasn't progressed . when i see an honest evaluation then i might be able to consider phoenixville has advanced. now you have had two child porn teachers/administrators in one year ,that would indicate you don't do a good job of screening personnel.you had a highly paid superintendent totally and incompetently do a buisness deal that was a major fiasco.now again you are using power without a major evaluation to make a move that may or may not accomplish an objective of advancing your school.one side not the education system is fond of giving out awards that are highly inflated to their real worth .
harryfinster December 28, 2013 at 07:04 PM
not =note
Chris December 29, 2013 at 09:00 AM
Fair enough. "Top" should be taken with a grain of salt. I try to say "top quartile" and there are many evaluations to show this. From a "top" perspective (meaning the very top) they are in the AP state. In addition, from a "college readiness" ranking, GV is in the low 20s according to US News and Phoenixville is in the 40s (this is out of approx 700 schools in the state). So again, they are not Masterson, Connestoga, GV, but they are in the top Quartile and in some cases the top 10% in the state depending on what you are looking at. Still room for improvement no doubt but worlds ahead of where they were 10-20 years back. It is so unfortunate you had such a bad experience as it really seems to have impacted you. This is a good example of why good teachers are so important and why it's good to get to know them well. We try to stay VERY active in all aspects of the school and are there frequently and I feel terrific about the teachers our children have had. We're very fortunate. I don't know that "screening" would eliminate what they found (two rogue unrelated idiots who have no prior records and never touched students). Sadly if they went into every teacher's home computer in the state, I doubt we'd like what we found...that's just the world in which we live...we're neither immune nor alone in that respect with these things happening virtually weekly around here. Sad! As for the last land issue, I cannot defend it and it was a miserable failure (I call them like I see them). However to say this most recent one was done without a "major evaluation" is not true. It's been in the works for a year... Thanks for the good spirited debate!
harryfinster December 29, 2013 at 12:14 PM
you must be the new phoenixville type person,you dont immediately collapse into bizarre accusations,however here is us world link i dont see the same numbers you do http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/pennsylvania/rankings here is a link to past http://www.scribd.com/doc/55863184/phoenixville2p have they checked the golf course for ddt residue etc ?
Chris December 29, 2013 at 07:17 PM
That's the same US news rankings. They stop ranking at 69. They can only rank schools where they have enough info. If you look for Phoenixville you'll see their college readiness score (a decent measure to rank a high school) would put them at about 40th. I think most of us in P'Ville are fairly mellow :)
harryfinster December 29, 2013 at 07:42 PM
now that is a huge supposition if your were doing a scientific experiment i think your data would be denied ,i saw 240 which is very much lower
Chris December 29, 2013 at 09:42 PM
You must be looking at something completely different than me. Suffice it to say the district is in the top quartile in the state. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that I suppose.
harryfinster December 29, 2013 at 11:11 PM
harryfinster December 29, 2013 at 11:13 PM
okay here is one and 60 is the number having come up from 110 so maybe like some districts the teachers" helped the kids do better "
Chris December 30, 2013 at 07:25 AM
Right so here is another source that puts them top ten percent. Things have changed dramatically. When I moved to the area 15 years ago many people wouldn't even like to admit they lived here. I never understood it until I learned the history. The wounds run deep but it has radically changed. Not sure where you live or if you are in the area but you wouldn't recognize it.
Muffins December 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM
Chris, agreed. I have lived here 22 yrs. and the Borough has dramatically changed. Harry, you would not recognize the town at all. It has definitely risen from the ashes.
harryfinster December 31, 2013 at 01:16 AM
well i think you misunderstand me, when a school district jumps a lot in one year,the teachers help is usually an eraser and a whispered answer ,this makes the teacher look good if they aren't caught i don't live anywhere near phoenixville , living there and going to high school there was enough to make me intensely dislike it forever where i live now is like a dream compared to the phoenixville nightmare
Chris December 31, 2013 at 08:27 AM
Lol you can keep exploring your theories. I will no longer try what is a futile effort to sway what is simply an incorrect opinion with no recent experience. Not sure why I even bother as I witness first hand every day how excellent our district is. If you are scared from the past there's unfortunately nothing I can help you with. Have a happy New Year and a good life.
Average Citizen December 31, 2013 at 09:53 AM
Dudes, it over. Period. End of story. Why continue wasting your time posting on this topic. The family got greedy (wanted 10 million for a property valued by neutral experts at around 3 million. They rejected a 5 million dollar offer from the school (i.e. OUR tax dollars) and will now have to settle what they get through the LAW. Some how I think these people will manage to live on with the 3+ million they get. We should all be so lucky. That golf course was a joke anyway. Poor kept, the locker room was disgusting, and hardly anyone went there anyway. My guess is they were likely losing money so this may be the best thing to happen to them. Too bad they got greedy and cost themselves 2 million dollars but you reap what you sow.
Muffins December 31, 2013 at 11:24 AM
Harry, if 'where I live now' is such a 'dream,' why do you keep harping on the 'nightmare' of which you think is Phoenixville? Sorry for your former life here, move on and make it better. Happy New Year.
harryfinster December 31, 2013 at 11:32 AM
people from there contact me and expect me to remember a place that never existed so i give them a dose of reality


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